Camel Books?

[Fini]

I've wanted to own a camel for years now, and have decided the only way I am going to do this is to begin somewhere. I’d really like to read up on their care and husbandry but it would appear said publications are rare. Does anyone have any suggestions of where I might find some good information?

I'm also looking for some experience with camels before I purchase. I'm in Northern California and would love to have a local or at least semi-local resource that I can come to with questions or even in time my camel.

Thanks,
Chris

[Cameleer]

I learned more about camels in this book than any others I have read!

Camels and the Outback: H.M. Barker
Gives a fascinating account of the years he spent as a camel driver in remote areas of Australia. In his lively anecdotes he introduces the reader to a number of unforgettable characters, such as W.C. Snell, who was known as the 'roughest camel driver in the country', and the eccentric 'Dobson of Australia', who used to shave by burning off his beard with lighted sticks.

Perhaps the most interesting aspect of the book is the detailed description of camels used as draught and pack animals in the bush. The author's commentary on the behaviour, capabilities, and limitations of camels shows how well he knew and understood them. His vivid recollections remind the reader that camels were invaluable as carriers and were used extensively throughout the continent for more than a generation.

[I love Gobi]

Thanks, Roger! And thanks, Fini, for asking about the books! There's a copy of it on eBay right now! :D

[Fini]

Thanks for the heads-up on the book! I just set my auction sniper to nail it.

I'm just a little shocked that there isn't more published on the care of camels. I know a great deal of it is passed down, but it would see at some point a book would just make sense. Oh well. I'll take what I can get at this stage.

Is the training video produced by Movieland Animals worth a view?

Cheers!
Chris

[potemkin]

Thanks for the heads-up on the book! I just set my auction sniper to nail it.



Chris

But.......... the KRAUTS won the auction. I am the happy new owner of this book.

Just the infos about the book:

"Camels and the Outback" by H(erbert) M Barker.
Published by Angus & Robertson, London 1964. First UK edition. Hardback with dust wrapper. 225 pages inc.index. 22cm. x 14.5cm. 18 pages of b/w photo illustrations.
This must surely be the most comprehensive book about the camels of Australia, written by a man who worked them for transport in the time (about 1910-20) when they were the most efficient and often the only means of carting goods in the remote outback where the roads were bad or non-existent.
Listed as a travel book because ebay is a bit short of categories on the lore of the Australian camel. Barker was settled in Western Australia, and doesnt give any 'traveller's tales' but the picture he paints of the outback is as good as any report by a wanderer, and what he didn't know about camels probably no-one did.
The book is in Very Good condition, with a few small marks on the covers, and the top edge foxed and soiled, but internally clean and tidy. There is a neat white triangular ticket-pocket stuck inside the back cover, suggesting this may be an ex-library copy, but there are none of the usual stamps and marks, and nothing else to show that it is so. The wrapper is a soiled and very tatty round the edges, with bits missing.


And i can just give you one council: go to www.abebooks.com (http://www.abebooks.com) i wish you all the best to find the book too.

actualy 37 items availeble directly by this Link: http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&y=6&tn=%22Camels+and+the+Outback%22&x=69&sortby=2

[potemkin]

Dear Chris!

(paste german text in http://www.freetranslation.com/) and you will see what a german Camelowner with 16 years of experience can tell you .....

Schadenfreude ist nicht echte Freude.... :confused: :D deshalb hier für Dich noch einige gute Ratschläge über gute Camelbooks

the first of all i have read and after i was directly highly infected with the camelvirus http://pictures.abebooks.com/WENDYSWISHINGWELL/587567574.jpg



http://www.abebooks.de/servlet/BookDetailsPL?bi=587567574&searchurl=an%3Drobyn%2Bdavidson%26y%3D7%26bsi%3D12 0%26x%3D56%26sortby%3D3

[potemkin]

Camels
by T. Wilson, 1998
published by Macmillan Education Ltd, Houndmills, Basingstoke RG21 6XS, UK
in association with Maisonneuve et Larosse and the Technical Centre for Agricultural and Rural Cooperation (CTA)
Email: p.oflannagan@macmillan.co.uk (p.oflannagan@macmillan.co.uk)
160pp, price £7.00, PBK, ISBN 0 333 60083 5
This is an excellent handbook on modern camel keeping. Chapters deal with origins and domestication and the distribution and importance of these animals. There is a detailed description of types and breeds and the uses to which these are adapted. There is a wealth of practical information on management, production and the potential of camels as producers of milk, meat and wool as well as their still important role in transport and providing farm and small-scale power.
The book will be of particular interest to farmers, university and college students and lecturers, extension workers, development workers and research scientists in all arid lands of Africa, Asia, Australia and the Middle East.

[potemkin]

http://www.camelsandcamelids.com/order.htm

not cheap but good!! helpfull to find all the camelbooks

[potemkin]

CAMELS A Compendium - Published by the University of Sydney February 1997 - Reprinted Octobe 2000 - by Dr G W Manefield BVSc MSc & Dr A H Tinson BVSc - ISBN 1 8755 59 2



http://www.vetbookshop.com/shop/moreinfo.cfm?Product_ID=65

Vade Mecum C22 - This book contains 350 alphabetically arranged items of information covering not only medicine and surgery but also reproduction, husbandry and management, socio-economics, production, nutrition, training, anatomy, physiology and natural history. Introductory sections guide the reader in accessing information of specific interest. Appendices provide information on comparative histology and medications mentioned throughout the text. It provides valuable information for everybody involved in all areas of camel activity

[potemkin]

http://www.amazon.com/Infectious-Diseases-Camelids-Ulrich-Wernery/dp/3826333047

[I love Gobi]

A BIG thank-you ( Danka ) for all of the titles of the Camel books! You're a treasure! :D ;)

[Cameleer]

WXICOF BOOKS
At the camel clinics I’ve gotten some books from this person. They also have some very hard to find camel books listed on their site. This is your one stop camel book store!
http://www.wxicof.com/Books/camel/camel.htm

Camels: A Compendium
As for this book; very good for a vet that doesn’t know much about camels, but too technical for me and I can’t say I’ve used it much!

Tracks
As for this book; It was a good story about her adventures, but I did not feel there was enough about the camels. She also did a book called "Outback By Camel" which I understand has beautiful photos that really makes it nice.

[Fini]

Fantastic book list, though I could spend a fortune. I was able to find copies of all the books listed through Alibris.com.

I actually already had a few including Tracks and From Alice To Ocean; this time I'm going more for care.

Thanks again for posting these resources. They may be scarce, but at least they are available.

Chris

[potemkin]

http://www.amazon.com/Camel-Training-Manual-kevin-greeson/dp/0974756288/sr=1-22/qid=1166527707/ref=sr_1_22/104-5536957-4048719?ie=UTF8&s=books

ISBN 0974756288

CAMEL - Training Manual -

by the authors Kevin Gresson & David Garrison

(Paperback) THIS TITLE IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE

Publisher: wigtake (2004)

Who is owner of a copy or know more about?

[Cameleer]

This book is not about training camels, it looks more like a book for converting Muslims to Christians. I didn’t read much of it, it’s not about camels and not my kind of thing.

Here’s a little about the book:
"Greeson's Camel Training offers hope for a whole new relationship between Evangelical Christians and the world's hundreds of millions of Muslims. And it is a hope that is born of experience. To date, more than a quarter of a million Muslims have come to faith in Christ through the approaches described in this book." - David Garrison.

If you really want to read this book, you can find it as a PDF by doing a search on the net.

[Fini]

That's a very curious title for a book about religious conversion! Thanks for pointing out it's actual intent.

Will avoid.

[potemkin]

Bullshit i found today one copy on Beagles Library somewhere in California. I was so quick and i have given an order by creditcard to buy the book. Dammend i put out the window 77 Box for notthing:D
But thank you guys for the quick reply

[Cameleer]

Hey, if you get this book, maybe you can convert your camel over to being a good Christian :D. BTW, Muslims sacrifice camels! I have a short video showing them sacrificing one on the streets of Delhi. It’s not nice as the blood gusher out and there’s a large audience of children and adults watching...

Here’s a link to the PDF if you really want to read this book, and this won’t cost you! :rolleyes:

http://www.communication-strategy.net/synapse/data/3314/documents/Camel_Training_Booklet_9.0.pdf

[I love Gobi]

Of all the books you guys have been talking about, which one would be the difinitive resource book for the absolute beginning Camel owner, or future Camel owner, that discusses Camel health? Training is always a matter of opinion when it comes to books or videos or trainers, but health is pretty basic. Is there one book that covers everything concerning health matters? Also, do Camels need yearly vaccines? And are they susceptable to the Meningial Worm that is so fatal to Llamas? We have a lot of Whitetail Deer and a lot of Snails here. :confused:

[camel4ever]

This may be of much help:
Dioli, M. (2007). Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel.

Is a photographic CD-ROM with 1000 captioned pictures on disease, husbandry, slaughtering, age determination etc etc of the camel.

It is available on line at: www.lulu.com/content/759963.

[I love Gobi]

Thanks for your reply. That brings up another question ................... do Bactrians and Dromedarys have the same health issues and treatments thereof? :confused:

[camel4ever]

bactrian and dromedary camels can interbreed and the cross is fertile (so they are not like horses and donkey) so they have the same disease vulnerability but of course there are some geographical differences. I doubt you will see frequently trypanosomosis in the bactrian while becasue of the long coat skin pathologies like mange and miasis will be worse in the bactrian then in the dromedaries ecc ecc

[I love Gobi]

Thanks again so much! I see I have a LOT more to learn before I get a Bactrian!!! :D

[camel4ever]

REALLY essential Bibliography for anybody wishing to learn about camels:

1 Dioli, M. (2007). Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of
the One-Humped Camel. Photographic CD-ROM with 1000 captioned
pictures. www.lulu.com/content/759963.

2 Falah K. Al-Ani (2004).Camel Management and Diseases. Al-Shraq Printing Press, Amman, Jordan.

Gahlot, T. K. (2000). Selected Topics on Camelids. The Camelid Publisher, Bikaner, India.

Gahlot, T. K. et al., (2004)Selected Research on Camelid Physiology and Nutrition.The Camelid Publisher, Bikaner, India.

Gaulthier Pilter, H.,Dagg, A.T. (1981)
The camel.Its evolution, ecology, behaviour and relationship to man. The University of Chicago Press,Chicago.

Manefield, G. W., Tinson, A. H. (1997)
Camels. A Compendium. Series C, No 22. University of Sydney Post Graduate Foundation in Veterinary Science.

Saltin, B., Rose, R. (1994)
The racing camel. Acta Physiologica Scandinavica, Vol. 150 Supplementum 617.
Schwartz, H.J., Dioli, M. (1992)
The one-humped camel in Eastern Africa: a pictorial guide to diseases, health care and management. Margraf Scientific Book,Berlin.
Smuts, M.M.S., Bezuidenhout, A.J. (1987)
Anatomy of the dromedary. Clarendon Press,Oxford.
Wernery, U., Kaaden O.R. (2002)
Infectious diseases of camelids. 2nd edition, Blackwell-Verlag, Berlin.
Wilson, R.T. (1984)
The camel. Longmann, London.
Wilson, R.T. (1989)
Ecophysiology of the camelidae and desert ruminant. Springer Verlag, Berlin.
Yagil, R. (1985)
The desert camel: comparative physiological adaptation. Karger, Basel.

Journals
1) Journal of Camel Practice and Research.
Camel Publishing House, Bikaner 3340001, India.
Published twice a year from 1994. It contains valuable articles on several topics dealing with SA and Old World camelids.

International Symposiums
1) Proceedings Khartoum Workshop on Camels: The Camelid an all-purpose
animal. Scandinavian Institute of African Studies, Uppsala.1984
2) Proceedings 1st International Camel Conference. R & W Publication
Lmt.1992
3) Proceeding Noaukchott Workshop 24-26 October 1994: Dromedaries and
camels, milking animals. Montpellier, France.
4) Proceeding of Eilat International Conference 15-19 December 1996 on
Camelids: Science and Productivity. (selected proceedings are printed in the Journal of Camel Practice and Research)
5) Proceeding of the International Workshop on the Camel Calf, Ouarzate,
Morocco 24-26 October 1999,
6) Proceeding of The International Scientific Congress on Camels, Al Qassim
University 10-12 May 2006, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.


Bibliographic reviews
Gahlot, T. K. et al., (2002)
Selected Bibliography on Camelids 1991-2000. The Camelid Publisher.
Saint-Martin E., et al., (1990)
Bibliographie sur le Dromedarie et le Chameau (2 vol.). IEMVT.
Wilson R. T., et al., (1990)
The one-humped camel. An analytical and annotated bibliography. UNSO.

[kjay]

Thank you for providing this list of books about camels. The information you provide is enormously valuable. There are many people who have camels here, and I hope they all get the chance to see your CD, Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel. It is absolutely fascinating and very informative. Anyone interested in camels should definitely see this CD! Thanks for your contributions here.

[macknnc]

I got a copy of the Wilson book referred to above, and frankly thought it more than a bit lacking..especially as far as beginner information was concerned. It seemed fairly technical, far above the head of the casual farmer or beginning camel keeper. It seems to assume we already know something about camels and some of technical terminology involved in keeping them.

For the right person, yes a very useful book; for someone wanting a basic "Idiots Guide to Keeping A Camel" l'd suggest looking elsewhere

[camel4ever]

I got a copy of the Wilson book referred to above, and frankly thought it more than a bit lacking..especially as far as beginner information was concerned. It seemed fairly technical, far above the head of the casual farmer or beginning camel keeper. It seems to assume we already know something about camels and some of technical terminology involved in keeping them.

For the right person, yes a very useful book; for someone wanting a basic "Idiots Guide to Keeping A Camel" l'd suggest looking elsewhere

Hi Macknnc.
I am afraid there is no "idiot guide to keeping a camel" !
My suggestion is to live among nomadic camel keepers for a few years. This is where the knowledge is.

Almost all the titles I wrote in my previous comment are somehow "technical" and not for the complete beginner. If somebody cannot work with camels and nomadic people for a few years or do not wish to go through technical camel books the only option to understand a few things is to watch carefully at photographs (and to read a few lines of explanations enclosed) illustrating a particular camel subject.

In this case the only possibility available is :
Dioli, M. (2007). Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel. Photographic CD-ROM with 1000 captioned
pictures. www.lulu.com/content/759963.

[macknnc]

Camel4ever...Yeah I sort of figured that...My (newfound) interest in camels began back in Nov. at a local Renaissance Fair. A couple of guys were giving camel rides, I stopped and asked what I thought was a total innocent question and we wound up spending damn near an hour talking about camels. As a friend of mine later put it.."Who would have thought camels could be so cool?"


but among the things they told me at the fair was "if you want to know about camels the best thing to do is go hang around people who have handled camels for several years.." "Nomadic Camel Keepers" are kind of thin on the ground here in North Carolina, so I wound up here, reading posts and asking idiotic questions.

The CD book at Lulu will be purchased by me sooner or later..(and yes, I know my "Idiots Guide to Keeping Camels" doesn't exist. That was a joke..) but i would love to get my hands on a fairly basic book on camel care.

[camel4ever]

Hi Macknnc,
I know what I am going to tell you it may not be easy but....try to become a friend of a Somali! Obviously a Somali who was not born in USA but who grew up in his native country and has recently arrived in USA.

I said Somalis because are among the best camel keepers in the world and, most important in your case, they are scattered everywhere. I would not be surprised if there is a consistent Somali community in North Carolina. Any Somali will be delighted to talk about camels all day long and you will learn a lot of things.

[DMiller779]

Hi Macknnc,
I know what I am going to tell you it may not be easy but....try to become a friend of a Somali! Obviously a Somali who was not born in USA but who grew up in his native country and has recently arrived in USA.

I said Somalis because are among the best camel keepers in the world and, most important in your case, they are scattered everywhere. I would not be surprised if there is a consistent Somali community in North Carolina. Any Somali will be delighted to talk about camels all day long and you will learn a lot of things.

Hi. I am new to this group. I am thinking seriously about getting a Somali friend but I know very little about them. Does anyone know a good reputable place to get one. I live in south Louisiana and they are rare here. I need info on what they eat and their basic temperment. Are they good family friends or will they become aggressive with age? I would really like to find an "Idiot's Guide to keeping a Somali Friend" but it probably doesn't exist...yet. BTW my dream would be to find a Somali friend with a camel but again, that is asking too much. Anyone having a Somali friend that he would like to get rid of please contact me here.

Hey Maurizio, this might be one of those cultural differences things that keeps popping up...ya think!? :D

Doug

[camel4ever]

Hi. I am new to this group. I am thinking seriously about getting a Somali friend but I know very little about them. Does anyone know a good reputable place to get one. I live in south Louisiana and they are rare here. I need info on what they eat and their basic temperment. Are they good family friends or will they become aggressive with age? I would really like to find an "Idiot's Guide to keeping a Somali Friend" but it probably doesn't exist...yet. BTW my dream would be to find a Somali friend with a camel but again, that is asking too much. Anyone having a Somali friend that he would like to get rid of please contact me here.

Hey Maurizio, this might be one of those cultural differences things that keeps popping up...ya think!? :D

Doug

:rofl yes :laughabove

[I love Gobi]

I've been away from the Forum for quite some time, and am going back over all the stuff I've missed seeing.
Would this book's information also apply to Bactirians?

[Donna]

Just don't bother with that lulu cd, I purchased it. Real waste of my money. Nothing BUT photos, NO explanations at all. I think I'll sell it on ebay!

[camel4ever]

Just don't bother with that lulu cd, I purchased it. Real waste of my money. Nothing BUT photos, NO explanations at all. I think I'll sell it on ebay!

cheap shot!

They says a picture is worth 1000 words.
Of course I difficult to explain colors to a blind person :devil

Anyway did you read the captions EXPLAINING the pictures shown?

[Donna]

I am not blind. And that WAS a total waste of MY money.

[camel4ever]

I am not blind. And that WAS a total waste of MY money.

ah ah ah relax !

The meaning was that you have to understand the pictures shown in the CD not simply to look at them. If you do not understand them you are like a blind person that is obviously unable to understand colors. Anyway did you READ the captions or the language was too complex ? :D

[Donna]

Language too complex??? Just the opposite, too simple. NOTHING to help ANYONE!!! Why do you think this CD would be a benefit to anyone in the modern world? I guess you just like to show the world all the cruel ways you people treat camels.
YOU are OUT of LINE!!! YOU my (GAG) friend ,do NOT understand the HUMAN language! Most of the "captions" were crap! AND they were WAY too many duplicates of the SAME thing. It's OK for any of us to disagree, a challenge of some way is good too. That's what makes a forum like this SO great! But you seem to think you "know everything" and you may in your little prick of the woods, but you have NO influence on the people here in the USA who know how to treat their camels AND the people who love them, male OR female.

[camel4ever]

Language too complex??? Just the opposite, too simple. NOTHING to help ANYONE!!! Why do you think this CD would be a benefit to anyone in the modern world? I guess you just like to show the world all the cruel ways you people treat camels.
YOU are OUT of LINE!!! YOU my (GAG) friend ,do NOT understand the HUMAN language! Most of the "captions" were crap! AND they were WAY too many duplicates of the SAME thing. It's OK for any of us to disagree, a challenge of some way is good too. That's what makes a forum like this SO great! But you seem to think you "know everything" and you may in your little prick of the woods, but you have NO influence on the people here in the USA who know how to treat their camels AND the people who love them, male OR female.

Wow what to say "Moderator"...thank you for your constructive and intelligent critics !

There is an old fable for children of Aesop: "Sour grapes" ! It describe very well your attitude: it is easy to hate what you cannot have ! :D

[camel4ever]

A further clarification about the "lulu CD": Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel

1) the CD it is NOT recommending a particular husbandry system/methods. It just SHOWS what people who have camel and have had camels for 000 of years do. Many of these methods are indeed cruel but this is what it is done. It is simply reality and as unpleasant as it is it should not be ignored. To get an "husbandry education" through Disney is a recipe for disaster! It is obvious (to me at least) that USA (or Europe) cannot impose their way of doing things or their view of life to everybody. What is making economic sense, and is correct and feasible in Georgia (where Donna lives) is not possible in the middle of nowhere in Sudan or Somalia where life and death events and decisions are made every day. Of course the opposite is true and methods used in Somalia should not be used in the middle of Texas.

2) the CD is primarily meant to people who have never worked with camels and who are not veterinarians or livestock specialists. Therefore it is showing a lot of things sometime repeatedly to make easier to understand.

The objective of the CD is educational. The theory is that anybody educated and intelligent e.g. Donna :o by seeing and understanding why a "cruel" system work may be able to replicate the same results without adopting the same cruel methods.

Unfortunately I now see that this objective at least in Cairo, Georgia (where Donna live ) is not possible. Why ? I do not know (well to be honest I know but I am not saying it :D). Suggestions are welcome.

[kjay]

Is it your task and purpose in the work you do to help these pastoral people do something different from what you show in your CD? Is that the primary intent of your work with them? It is understandable that they use such primitive treatments, but do you show them better and more modern techniques? I would hope this to be true; otherwise why would you be there? So I guess I'm answering my own question, I hope.

[camel4ever]

[QUOTE=camel4ever;2724]A further clarification about the "lulu CD": Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel

Here is the summary of the content of Cd that offended so many people in this forum. Just 25 years of work wasted :(
SUMMARY

Total Number of captioned illustrations: 1001, 14 Chapters in PDF format

Chapter 1: The One-Humped Camel: Importance and Uses (93 illustrations)

Chapter 2: Breeds. Common African, Middle East and Asian Breeds (59 illustrations)

Chapter 3: Conformation: Body and Udder Conformation Faults, Congenital Malformations. (65 illustrations)

Chapter 4: Reproduction: Sexual Behaviour, Parturition and Associated Problems. (70 illustrations)

Chapter 5: Traditional Management: Traditional Husbandry Practices. (67 illustrations)

Chapter 6: Traditional Management: Restraining Techniques. (47 illustrations)

Chapter 7: Traditional Management: Milking Husbandry Practices, Fostering and Weaning Techniques. (88 illustrations)

Chapter 8: Traditional Management: Therapeutical Practices: Branding, Open
Castrations, Various Treatments. (79 illustrations)

Chapter 9: Diseases: Common Serious Pathologies. Camel Pox, Contagious Ecthyma, Trypanosomosis, Mange, Haemorrhagic Disease, Diseases of Respiratory System. (75 illustrations)

Chapter 10: Diseases: Common Mild Pathologies. Lymphadenitis, Gastrointestinal Parasites, External Parasites, Mastitis. (74 illustrations)

Chapter 11: Diseases: Wounds and Mild Skin Pathologies. Traumatic Wounds, Predator/Snake Wounds, Various Mild Skin Pathologies (dermoid cyst, papillomatosis, dermatophilosis, dermatitis) (81 illustrations)

Chapter 12: Diseases: Occasional Pathologies. Hernia, ”Wry Neck”, Neonatal Septic Arthritis, Septic Arthritis, ”Swollen Throat Syndrome”, Salivary Cyst/Fistula, Overgrown Foot Sole and Nails, Paralysis, Fractures, Leech Infestation, Plant Poisoning, ”Skin Necrosis”, Dipetalonemiasis, Rectal Prolapse, Preputial Prolapse, Urolithiasis, Foreign Bodies. (84 illustrations)

Chapter 13: Slaughter and Post Mortem. (79 illustrations)

Chapter 14: Age Determination. (40 illustration)

[camel drover]

[QUOTE=camel4ever;2736][QUOTE=camel4ever;2724]A further clarification about the "lulu CD": Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel

Here is the summary of the content of Cd that offended so many people in this forum. Just 25 years of work wasted :(


once again i stand to correct you camels4ever!!!!! surly they must teach you to count there where you live!!!!! or am i wrong check my math for me PLEASE! how many are in a "many" at the present time I'd say there were a few at most and probably a couple and there not sure, which leads to a single,and if your the last of your kind you becomes exstinkt any way! "EXCEPT" there's only a few animals and one lady that ever reproduced with out a (SEX) partner i think her name was mary! so ole boy back to the math!!!! 387 members here on this forum! so "(IF)" YOU made ME and TWO more MAD That's three of 387 this is a little less than 3% of this population of this forums formulation!!!!!!! that gives you 97.3% approval rating YES?????
Please keep in mind i did the math in my head so there just approx figs and i am from the south with very little schooling that took, can barely wright and cant spell kat! and my grammer SuXSSSSSSS and i have been told so more than once!!!! i have offended many and been defended by few (thank you and you and yo...) and still if you go back to the math even i have a 90.2% approval rating because the rest of the people never opened there mouth so we ASSume there happy with us!!! i have personally never been so smart that could not learn something from some one !!!!! Even if it's what NOT TO DO! example;"wholly CRAP do NOT do that one"
in closing YOU are guilty camel4ever of laying 25 years of work out for the world to see! who chooses to walk on and over it you have no control over it! who picks it up and learns something you have no control over !!! The only comfort you can get from it is that out of 3BILLON people on on the planet YOU are one of the FEW that went to the trouble to T R Y and produced material for recorded history (no matter how good or bad)!
ME being CHEEP as H.... I'm looking for the CD on Ebay SORRY! and in the words of P.T. Barnum "any publicity is good publicity
just to make you feel better about your self C4E IF you sold 1000 Cd at 50$ each thats 50,000 dollars thats $2ooo a year or a $180 a month or $40 something a weak or $5 something a day!! ah CRAp never mind C4E thanks for doing it for nuthing you get aGOLD STAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ps im thinking of changing my avitar pic to this one on the right what do ya think

[erica]

Camel4ever, Dr. Dioli, i presume...I would be interested if you would answer Kjay's question. I happen to own both your CD and the book to which you were both a contributer and editor. I own almost any book/resource on camels that i can afford and i have collected and read many in order to enhance my knowledge and use what i can to manage the animals in my care. i can understand appreciating a traditional technique and yet not use it if another solution is available to me. And on your other comment to me regarding eating the camel (see heat reccomendations) i don't presume the camel is useless just because she has reached a certain age or is a bit stiff...and Scott (camel Drover) if she is past the point of our being able to help her i/we have made the difficult decision to euthanze in my thirty two years of animal keeping i don't think i would have trouble making it here either...Erica

[camel drover]

i don't presume the camel is useless just because she has reached a certain age or is a bit stiff...and Scott (camel Drover) if she is past the point of our being able to help her i/we have made the difficult decision to euthanze in my thirty two years of animal keeping i don't think i would have trouble making it here either...Erica

Excellent answer:notworthy well said:notworthy and impressed i am!!!!
all kidding a side good answer and well said!!! any time you use the heart and not the mind to make decisions, you normally destroy what you seek to save! as i said "some where between bar-BQ and loosing the farm is the answer and you have the ultimate decision where that is ???? sounds like you have a grip on it to me!!! and i think ole DR Doi.... C4Ever was making a funny (BBQ) just to listen to folks Squawk!!!! I for one enjoyed watching C4E get it once again and i am sure he did as well, because with out him this forum would get SLOWWWWWW very (few post), and i might be the target for scrutiny Lord knows I'm a good target cause fat folks are slow and dumb and easy to hit (i can say that cause I'm a big boy right?? or should i apologize [This was a funny])!!!! So thank you for being nice to me S.:)

[camel4ever]

Camel4ever, ..if she is past the point of our being able to help her i/we have made the difficult decision to euthanze in my thirty two years of animal keeping i don't think i would have trouble making it here either...Erica

Hi Erica,
lets forget names and titles! I am feeling a bit guilty for my comment to you about eating your camel but I did it as a provocation because I was thinking you were, as so many other people in USA/Europe, so morbidly well intentioned and loving towards your own pet camel to have lost perspective of what is important in life (and sorry for the pompous words!).

To me is unethical and plain wrong to spend 000 of $ to keep and old chronically sick animal alive while the same amount of money could alleviate the life another human beings or make poor children smile. Excessive medical therapy is a concept well known in the human medical field with the term of "medical futility": excessive medical interventions to keep a patient alive although the prognosis for survival is very poor. Of course it is right to make a small efforts to help an old camel to survive a few more years. But this decision should be well balanced and we should not be so egoistical to want to keep our animal friend alive at any cost. You yourself (certainly me!) would not want to be kept alive until 120 with tubes coming in/out and machine running the show.

Where I worked old thin camels are often left free to wander and die (or to be eaten by predators). Fat camels are slaughtered or sold but still remembered for ever.

From your late post I now believe that I misjudged you and your are, like Cameleer, Camel drover and many of us, a responsible competent person who loves her camels. Hope the time for your camel to be put down will still be years away.

PS: camel meat is undistinguishable from beef. However the liver is like rubber and cannot be eaten :devil

[Patrick]

I identify with the thought process as explained above, even if the original reply was a bit knee jerk, and harsh. I suggest that any camel which has to endure temps ONLY as low as 35-40, is living the life of luxury, and if that is too much for it to take, well, we've already gone there. You might want to talk to your veterinarian about chondroitin suppliments. I've seen some fairly good results with it in dogs, and I understand that they use it in those crazy animals,......... what do they call them,................ horses? Not all chondroitin suppliments are created alike, as I understand it, so talk to your vet before potentially wasting your money at the grain store.

Now, back to the books. This is my take on what I have:

Schwartz, H. J., Dioli, M 1992 The One-Humped Camel in Eastern Africa
A very good book. Lots of good information on dromedary biology, plenty of good color photos on many subjects dealing with camels. It obviously deals with management from an African perspective, so some of that information is limited to those of us in the US or other countries. Some of the management and medical treatments shown seem to be more for informational purposes rather than intended for actual use by sophisticated camel keepers. Some are of doubtful effectiveness, others seem outright barbaric, even with the broadest tolerance of cultural differences. This book has some good medical information, most of use in the subject locality, but some aplicable anywhere. The index is very short, which limits the ease with which I can naviagte the book, and it's getting up ther ein age, going on twenty years, so I'd like to see some more current info, but overall a very good book to have, for any camel keeper, I think. I forget what I paid, but seem to remember that it was a bit pricey. Worth it, IMO, but then I'm not one to be afraid to spend money on a good book.

Khan, Bakht Baidar et al 2006 Livestock Management Manual II
Not bad, a smaller book, in black and white. Photos are poor quality, photocopies from other sources. This book compares horses with camels, and has a lot of nice information on both species, if you like those other ones. In many cases, the camel looks like the neglected step child. Detailed artful diagrams of horse anatomy sit next to crude outlined sketches of similar structures in camels. Despite not being mentioned in the references, a lot of the information is borrowed from the book above, including many of the photos, and some nice schematic drawings of structural conformation traits in camels. There is a nice set of drawing which outlines the gaits of a camel, which I haven't seen elsewhere. The chart which shows teeth eruption timeframe is easy to follow. This book doesn't have everything you'll need to know about camels, but it's got some good information for those with a thirst for it. There is no index.

Kohler-Rollefson, Ilse, Mundy, Paul, Mathias, Evelyn 2001 A Field Manual of Camel Diseases
I forced myself to read through half of this book before putting it down in disgust. When I finally cooled down a bit, I went back to it, and realized its value, despite its shortcomings. The authors have this noble ideal of trying to put together a book which can be used by both the academic minded person and the traditional pastoralist. Each disease discusion has both an explanation of modern medical treatments and traditional healing methods. Nothing wrong with this, but many of the traditional methods described are primitive to say the least. Cruel and barbaric is not too harsh for some of them. A lot of them contain obscur plants, preparation methods or ingredients. Many of these treatments are so far removed from modern methods, that anyone trying to replicate them in most western countries would be brought up on cruelty charges. On top of it, it's difficult to see how a lot of them could possible ever work. I believe that animals treated with many of the traditional methods listed, if they heal, do so in spite of what was done, not because of it. I question the actual effectiveness of spending so much time on research and print space, wondering just how many English speaking primitive pastoralists will be reading this book for info on how to treat their camels, info that they would have already learned from others in their same culture. I question how responsible the authors were in promoting many of these methods by introducing them to an audience which mainly has the resources to offer more modern, even basic care to their animals. Despite all of that, the modern, up to date information in this book is very good. There are a lot of detailed treaments and drug dosages, useful to camel keepers in developed countries, and contact information for camel researchers from around the world. The table of contents, glossary and index are extremelt thorough, and make this book a joy to use. A very good book, if you can ignore its faults and focus on its strengths, of which there are many.

Wernery, Ulrich and Renate, Camelidae
Undated, but relatively recent. Some of the references are listed as 2002. A nice booklet, although small. Excellent color photos throughout. It touches on the new world camelids, and on Bactrians, but most of it is about droms. Most of the info comes from the Central Veterinary Research Laboratory, from their cutting edge work on modern methods of camel management and care. Supported by the crown prince of Dubai, due to his interest in racing camels, it appears that the research going on there, and the funding behind it, rivals that of any horse related research being done in the western world. It's nice to see something nice come out of the middle east lately. This is more of a general interest book on camels, showing their current state in the world, rather than a care manual, but there is some info on camel physiology. If you're a book collector, it's very nice to have, although it was somewhat pricey for what I paid from a used book source ($35), it's still nice. It won't be my main reference, but I like it.

[camel4ever]

[QUOTE=Patrick;2755]I identify with the thought process as explained above, .

Very much agree with the previous post.
Excludining old books like the one of Leese, Cross, Lombardini, Droandi etc other very good camel pubblications are the following:

1 Ahmed Tibary Abdelhak Anouassi (1997).
Theriogenology in camelidae. Anatomy, Physiology, Pathology and artificial breeding. Abu Dhabi Printing P, UAE.

2 Dioli, M. (2007).
Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of
the One-Humped Camel. Photographic CD-ROM with 1000 pictures captioned in 14 chapters www.lulu.com/content/759963.

3 Falah K. Al-Ani (2004).
Camel Management and Diseases. Al-Shraq Printing Press, Amman, Jordan.

4 Gahlot, T. K. (2000). Selected Topics on Camelids. The Camelid Publisher, Bikaner, India.

5 Gahlot, T. K. et al., (2004)Selected Research on Camelid Physiology and Nutrition.The Camelid Publisher, Bikaner, India.

6 Gaulthier Pilter, H.,Dagg, A.T. (1981)
The camel.Its evolution, ecology, behaviour and relationship to man. The University of Chicago Press,Chicago.

7 Manefield, G. W., Tinson, A. H. (1997)
Camels. A Compendium. Series C, No 22. University of Sydney Post Graduate Foundation in Veterinary Science.

8 Ramadan R.O (1994).
Surgery and Radiology of the Dromedary camel. Al- Jawad Printing Press,KSA

9 Saltin, B., Rose, R. (1994)
The racing camel. Acta Physiologica Scandinavica, Vol. 150 Supplementum 617.

10 Smuts, M.M.S., Bezuidenhout, A.J. (1987)
Anatomy of the dromedary. Clarendon Press,Oxford.

11 Wernery, U., Kaaden O.R. (2002)
Infectious diseases of camelids. 2nd edition, Blackwell-Verlag, Berlin.

12 Wilson, R.T. (1984)
The camel. Longmann, London.

13 Wilson, R.T. (1989)
Ecophysiology of the camelidae and desert ruminant. Springer Verlag, Berlin.

14 Yagil, R. (1985)
The desert camel: comparative physiological adaptation. Karger, Basel.

Journals
1) Journal of Camel Practice and Research.
Camel Publishing House, Bikaner 3340001, India.
Published twice a year from 1994. It contains valuable articles on several topics dealing with SA and Old World camelids.

International Symposiums
1) Proceedings Khartoum Workshop on Camels: The Camelid an all-purpose
animal. Scandinavian Institute of African Studies, Uppsala.1984
2) Proceedings 1st International Camel Conference. R & W Publication
Lmt.1992
3) Proceeding Noaukchott Workshop 24-26 October 1994: Dromedaries and
camels, milking animals. Montpellier, France.
4) Proceeding of Eilat International Conference 15-19 December 1996 on
Camelids: Science and Productivity. (selected proceedings are printed in the Journal of Camel Practice and Research)
5) Proceeding of the International Workshop on the Camel Calf, Ouarzate,
Morocco 24-26 October 1999,
6) Proceeding of The International Scientific Congress on Camels, Al Qassim
University 10-12 May 2006, Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.

[erica]

just FYI for some that don't own these books, several of these books are out of print and some are very expensive...despite that, do you now how i could find a copy of "Surgery and Radiology of the Dromedary camel." Ramadon, OR; Al- Jawad Printing Press,KSA? in the usa? looked for it on the internet but haven't found a source....
oH, and just so everyone knows..i always consult the vets for medical problems and only go to forums for suggestions and thoughts on management techniques... i am forever amazed at what people assume on these forums...
always trying to be respectful, Erica

[Patrick]

I'm running into the same problem with book availability. I guess it's part of the price we pay for animals we've chosen.

I didn't assume that you wouldn't talk to your vet, but where my suggestion was concerned, it might help you spend your money where it would do the most good. If you ask for opinions, you're going to get them. Take what you like, leave the rest.

[camel4ever]

just FYI for some that don't own these books, several of these books are out of print and some are very expensive...despite that, do you now how i could find a copy of "Surgery and Radiology of the Dromedary camel." Ramadon, OR; Al- Jawad Printing Press,KSA? in the usa? looked for it on the internet but haven't found a source....
oH, and just so everyone knows..i always consult the vets for medical problems and only go to forums for suggestions and thoughts on management techniques... i am forever amazed at what people assume on these forums...
always trying to be respectful, Erica

You are right some of the book are expensive, some are out of print and some are damned difficult to get it. You may also be able to get this less common books:

Droandi, I. (1936)
Il cammello: storia naturale, anatomica, fisiologica, zootecnica, patologia.Inst.Agri.Colon.Ital.,Florence.

Evans, J. O., Simpkins, S. P. and Aitkins, D. (1995)
Camel keeping in Kenya. Range Management Handbook of Kenya. Ministry of Agriculture Livestock Development and Marketing/GTZ

Faye, B. (1997)
Guide de l’elevage du dromedaire. Sanofi Sante Nutrition Animale, Libourne, France.

Higgins, A.J. (1986)
The camel in health and disease. Bailliere Tindall,London.

Hjort, A. (1993)
The multi-purpose camel: interdisciplinary studies on pastoral production in Somalia. EPOS

Hjort, A. (1988)
Camels in Development. Sustainable Production in African Drylands. Scandinavian Institute of African Studies, Uppsala 1988.

Leese, A.S. (1927)
A treatise on the one-humped camel in health and in disease. Haynes & Son, Stamford,England.

Leitch, I. (1940)
The Feeding of Camels. Imperial Bureau of Animal Nutrition paper no 13.

Lombardini, L. (1879)
Sui Cammelli. Tipografia T. Nistri, Pisa,Italy

Rabagliati, D. (1924)
The Dentition of the Camel. Government Press, Cairo.

Scaramella, D., Cianci, D., Macchioni, G. (1989)
Il cammello. Edizioni Agricole.

I had all these publications. To get them you just need time and have an obsessive compulsive personality.

I did a 10 second search using Google words:"ramadan surgery camel" ! I found quite a bit of information and his email: ramadan185@yahoo.co.uk
You may try to contact him and ask how to purchase his book. However do not get too excited people in the middle east seems not to reply to emails! Still you may be lucky.

[erica]

thanks, i got many references to and books that cite his book but not a source to buy the book. i will take the suggestion to email Prof. Ramadan and see how lucky i am...
Erica

[erica]

sadly my email came back as undeliverable...i guess he changed his email address...i wonder if he is on this forum with a pseudonym?
Erica