Cush & stay down... how?

[Cmaentz]

I need help fast... I've committed Boris to walking in the local parade Dec 6/8. I can get him to cush with the tickle method but he only stays down a few seconds. How do I teach him to stay down?:confused:

[camels]

You could sit on top of him or tie his front legs together with a rope going over his neck after he cushes. Then release him and give the up command.

[Cmaentz]

I'm guessing he has to have ropes around his legs before he goes down? As for sitting on him, I tried that and although I weigh 180 lbs, he's easily sent me "flying" off.

[camels]

I don't do the rope thing every time, but I have used it to show my camel that it's inappropriate to get up until I say so. When he was smaller, I would just step on his leg and hold him down, but now he's much too big for that and the ropes come in handy.

I don't put the ropes on before I ask him to cush, I do it immediately after. He lays there for a few minutes or however long, and then I remove the ropes and I give him the up command.

Alternatively you could just make him keep going down until he stays there. He should learn that it's much less trouble to just lay there then to keep having to argue with you about it.

[Cmaentz]

Stephanie, is that you?

After reading many, many behavior posts I've come to realize that Boris is a good camel and is very well behaved. I'm just very nervous at having him walk this parade on Saturday (Dec 6/08). It was surprisingly easy to teach him to cush and to have him do it every day.

Today I tried to cush him in a totally new environment and it was like starting all over again. I like the idea of having him cush over and over until he realizes that I want him to stay down but I'm afraid the repetition will "spoil" him? Then do you use the command "stay"??? Or does it remain cush?

I've looked at the images on the camel photo website to cush with ropes and I might give that a try if I can get hubby to come help.

The thing that "scares" me about this 4 block walk is that although Boris loves the attention in his pen in a public place, until late last week, he's never been walked out of his pen. I can lead him but I have to be very patient - it's a tedious game of pull,release,pull,release. I do a lot of walking in circles to keep him moving.

I'm going to make him a rope halter - I've read that camels respond better to ropes than to flat halter types. Also, I noticed on another site that besides the head rope halter, there's a also a loop around the lower part of the neck. Any ideas why/what that is for?

I've learned that it's easier to walk while keeping his head lowered - that way it's more difficult for him to raise his head and express dominance. However, being that close, I've been hit in the butt by one of his knees when he tries on of his fancy camel dances. Not very pleasant but not intentional on Boris's part.

Speaking of dance, when is it acceptable to let him "dance"?

On last question... sometimes he "growls" and blows air out of his cheeks and lifts his head. I scold him when he does that and bring his head down and use a harsh voice telling him "Stop it!" I'm confused as to what is acceptable camel behavior and what isn't. I surely don't want to restrict normal behavior.

FYI, Boris is 28 months old, we're his 3rd owners, he was bottle raised and was gelded 2 months ago. I've never owned a camel but I am a very patient animal lover. Boris shares his barn with a multitude of little goats and mini donkeys, etc (read more www.crazygoatlady.com).

How do you reprimand a camel? "Bad, bad boy" doesn't mean a darn thing to him - not like the dog!;)

To all the members of this group, know that I appreciate all of your input and value your experience.

[3droms]

I re-cush them (hopefully before they get all the way up), I don't have a word to get them to stay. I think they expect to cush until told to get up, but they try their luck when they get bored (or they don't like what the vet is doing).

One of my camels leads (by the sounds of it) like yours. I have found if I walk faster she leads better because the pace isn't so stilted (I am very short which means a snails pace for the camel being led). She also has a great trick of walking around me until she faces me so I also do lots of circles to prevent that. Arggggggg!!

When you say dance I assume you mean the bouncing around? Ours usually do that when they are full of energy like when thet are excited (they also chase each other and bite each other on the rump when excited) or nervous. Your camel is very young I'm not sure that there is much you will be able to do about it.

I have noticed that our camels also do the growling cheek puffing thing. I have seen them do it while grazing, although I would not say it was something they did often. I have no idea why they do it. I don't scold them for it.

[camels]

Hi, yes it's me.

I don't use any command to stay, I just use a command for him to get up. If he gets up without the command, I make him go back down again.

The loop around the neck is to help control the neck.

I reprimanded my camel to stop trying to suck on my fingers like a bottle, by flicking his nose very quickly with one finger. He's since connected the flick with trying to suck on me and has stopped completely. Otherwise I do tell him "no" sternly, or I'll just walk away completely if we aren't in the middle of something.

[may]

On last question... sometimes he "growls" and blows air out of his cheeks and lifts his head. I scold him when he does that and bring his head down and use a harsh voice telling him "Stop it!" I'm confused as to what is acceptable camel behavior and what isn't. I surely don't want to restrict normal behavior.

FYI, Boris is 28 months old, we're his 3rd owners, he was bottle raised and was gelded 2 months ago. I've never owned a camel but I am a very patient animal lover. Boris shares his barn with a multitude of little goats and mini donkeys, etc (read more www.crazygoatlady.com).

How do you reprimand a camel? "Bad, bad boy" doesn't mean a darn thing to him - not like the dog!;)


Hi Cmaentz!

The growling and blowing air out of the cheeks is what I call "charging", shown to me by camels who want to tell me "Stay away", "I'm not up to work to day", or: "Wanna have a little fight, let's see who is the boss?!" It is indeed normal behavior as it is what camel bulls display very much to each other especially when in mating season. But also some female camels like to do it a lot. I think pulling the head down is a good option as long as he never tries to bite or else.

My thoughts about how to reprimand: Dogs apparently react sensitive to many different emotional intonations in our human voices. When interacting with camels I use only the two emotions "calming" and "not happy with your behavior". And the "not happy with your behavior" type of intonation in my case is that I say whatever I want to say in a very very growling way. As more bad I want a camel to stop that certain behavior as lowder my growling gets. This is what I learned from my fellow cameleers and so all the camels get the same input from the different handlers.

When the behavior, e.g. biting is threatening for someone human I use my hand for a short and firm tap on the nose, like "camels" already suggested.

Do you know more about Boris' previous life? The more time he spent with other camels and with not to close human contact the more likely he will have "normal" behavior patterns and will do what you teach him/ask him for.

All the best from South Australia!
may

[Cmaentz]

May,

Thank you very much for your valuable input! I'm so glad I found this forum - I've learned more in 3 days than in 2 months searching the web!

[camel2]

I second 3droms. You always want to make sure your camel gets up on YOUR cue. If he gets up before asked, immediately recush. With time he will learn its easier to stay down. NEVER let a camel bounce while on lead. Its dangerous and naughty and can lead to lots of bad behavior. If you have your camels head down, you shouldn't be that close to his knees unless he's striking out or going noodle necked on you. Be sure you don't fall behind his head when you bring his head down. Also, if your going in a parade be sure he walks over things on the ground so if you encounter railroad tracks, lines, whatever, he doesn't give you grief. Its also safer if you have someone walking behind you that you know. You don't want a spectator rushing out of the crowd to pet you camels butt...people can be rude.

I let the camels walk with their head in a natural position but I reinforce that I'm in control by periodically asking them to bring their head down. They should respond to light pressure. Also, camels will use their neck to try to push. Anytime, a camel's body touches me (neck, shoulder) they are asked to back...sometimes swiftly depending on how hard they bump me. This helps teach them how they should respect personal space. You can also use your arm like a pulley/ lever to back a camel off you. While walking, I'll keep my arm in front of their neck (not touching). If they try to push or crown me, I'll pull down on their head as I push into their neck with my elbow. This will force them back.

As an extra measure you can always put a chain over his nose. I use a double lead...one end has a chain that goes over the camels nose and the other is just a clip. That way I can lead with just the clip but if they mis behave the chains right there to snap down.

Have fun in your parade. I get to do rides with a camel this Saturday, no parade this time.

[camelsinfrance]

The brilliant thing about working with the clicker is it's all positive, however, please be warned, that what you'll be doing is "Changing the picture" - you're by the sounds of it currently working well with him through the clicker, and leading him safely in familiar territory, problems can occour in unfamiliar territory ie. when the picture is different. Just speaking from personal experience, it may be wise to preempt any problems in advance of your public work, and thus get him practising working / playing with you in unfamiliar territory. My camels worked well when going into different areas, but guaranteed - there's always something to "upset " them and it's best to avoid this prior to your date!!

[camels]

How did the parade go?