Camel getting more dominate - need suggestions

[camels]

My camel seems to be getting slowly more aggressive. He's very "moody". One day he'll be great with his training and perfectly fine, and then the next he's pushy and disrespectful.

Some background... he's 21 months old, and is scheduled to be gelded in October. He has free range of ten acres, and also has a round pen I can put him up in if I need to.

He's never hurt anyone, never knocked me down, never hurt any animals. He usually listens well. I've had him since he was 30 days old and bottle raised him myself. I never babied him, and I was quite rough with him when he was younger. Forcing him down on the ground when he got "bouncy" and never letting him invade my space.

He was having issues that if anyone carried anything around him, he would bounce over to you and try to knock it out of your hands. If he was successful (and sometimes he was), he would attack whatever you were holding and stomp on it. His aggression wasn't towards the person carrying it, but towards the object. And you could walk up to him and he would be okay with you. I started carrying lots of stuff around him, and he started doing it less and less, and now he doesn't do it at all, really.

Now he's getting more and more possessive with cars. He likes to pretend to run along side of them in his pasture. Yesterday, I drove my car down the driveway and off the property and shut the gate, and he did his normal thing chasing it and seeming quite angry. I realized that I had forgotten something, and instead of backing down the drive, I decided to just walk down to the house.

I walked all the way back, and my camel met me at the gate to the house. He didn't seem particularly annoyed with anything, but then he swung his head way too close to my personal space. I grabbed him by his neck and held him, and I told him to cush to control him. He didn't listen, and kept trying to snake his neck away from me. He was obviously very riled up still from chasing the car. I tried to hold him best I could, but he got away from me, and then started charging closer and closer to me. He would not at all listen when I told him to "back up" (which he usually does on vocal command), and he kept coming at me. I really thought he might knock me down, so I just got out of his way, and went inside the gate.

It's very strange, because he loves the cars. He wants to sleep next to them at night. Also when we go for walks, other cars don't bother him. He doesn't try to chase them when I'm leading him, and doesn't seem particularly interested in them.

Anyway, when I came back out from the house, he was inside his round pen (I leave the door open when he's in the pasture so he can get back in) tearing up his mattress in there. It seemed like he was taking out his frustration on that instead.

This is just an example of how he's getting more pushy and disrespectful. I was wondering if I'm doing something wrong or how I can work with him better.

Do you think it's a bad thing that he can roam the entire property and go where ever he pleases? Could this be causing him to be disrespectful?

Would keeping him in the round pen be better?

Or would he get bored in there and then become more aggressive because he's not expanding any of his energy?

[camelidman]

As ever, I have little camel specific advice to offer, but I have kept other species of camelids for several years and therefore have a fair amount of experience of their behaviour.

I once bottle fed a llama after his mother died during the birthing process. He was the most lovable 'pet' we've ever kept. He loved to spend time with us, was very gentle, even with the children, who were only just starting to walk at the time and, spent little or no time with the rest of the herd. We kept him in a small pen for the first 3 months of his life, then let him out with the alpacas (I figured the damage that an adult llama could cause him if they rejected him was much worse than an adult alpaca). He didn't mix with them at all and just stayed in a corner of the field away from the others. Then after around 10 days, we brought two of the nicer llamas up to the catch pen and let him in there with them. He seemed to get on okay, so after two days we released all three back into the main paddock. He was accepted by the herd and even the alpha male seemed to take him under his wing. I still had to give him milk each day until he was 7 months old, but this didn't seem to divide the herd at all.
He continued to have an excellent character for the following year. Then at at the age of 18 months he changed overnight. One of my children went into the field to show their friends how gentle he was, and he first pushed, then spat, then attempted to kick him. I snatched the child away and put it down to an unknown influence, such as a smell, or a bramble or thorn caught in his fleece. The bad mood continued into the next week and eventually I called a vet friend of mine to see him, suspecting that he may be ill. I explained what had happened along with his history and was told that it was known for vets to be called out to destroy male camelids that have been hand reared, as when they start to come of age they start to recognise their size difference to their human keepers and, because of the close relationship they enjoyed for the first few months of their lives they have little fear of us.
I realise this sounds pretty negative, and I hope the reason for his change in behaviour isn't the same as I experienced.
The vet did say something that urged me to work through the problems. He said that while he had been asked to destroy this kind of animal, he always refused. He suggested that I seek out a trainer who was experienced with behaviour modification in larger animals.
I did find someone locally to me. It was a horse trainer who regularly cared for horses after motor vehicle related accidents. It took twice weekly sessions with the trainer for three weeks, then once weekly for another 6 weeks, and lots of work on my own with him in between to get him up to being respectful towards us again. We didn't have him castrated at all. The reason for this was that he has excellent conformation so he has since made a superb stud male.
It's now 6 years since the problems first occurred, and we're still living happily together. He's since become the alpha male of my herd of llamas, but we still have the very old other uncastrated male to keep an eye on him.
So, as far as advice is concerned, I would initially ask for a vets point of view, but then assuming he confirms that the problem is the same as mine was, I would put in some serious time with him, or get a trainer to deal with it for you (or both).

I wish you the very best of luck in the weeks to come. I'm sure you'll get lots of other advice from camel keepers about the size of pasture and whether gelding at this young age is the right way to go. If you want to ask me anything else, then I check this board daily so feel free to drop me a line.

[camels]

Thank you for your input.

It's a little different with my boy, as he's not disrespectful always. It's just like an adolescent child throwing temper tantrums. He has mostly great days, but even then he sometimes gets pushy with me and I want to nip this in the bud before it gets worse and he gets bigger.

What sort of things did the trainer do with your camel?

I have a trainer in mind about four hours away from me if things ever get too difficult for me to handle. But I've done all the training myself thus far, and I would like to continue for as long as it is safe to do so.

[camelidman]

Hi,
Most of the work we did was with a long line in a round pen. At the time I seemed to spend far too long in there, but it seemed to pay off in the end.
The trainer visited twice a week and basically demonstrated to me what I was to do twice or three times a day until we next met. Each session started and ended on the long line doing circles in the pen. We practised 'the word of command'. Getting the llama used to specific orders again (as I'd never formally trained him, but we'd just sort of grown to know each other it) was a good place to restart. After a few days we got the stop, start, here, back, slow, etc. down to a tee.
Then we progressed to touching exercises. Getting the animal used to me touching each area of his body. As with camels, the legs and top of the head are the sensitive areas on a llama, so after getting him used to the less sensitive areas we concentrated on those. I should have mentioned that praise was managed verbally and with food (apples).
Next was work on walking together and following the same commands as we practised on the long line (by the way, with the long line I used a long stick to encourage movement or stopping, etc.).
Finally, we did the same in an open paddock with a REALLY long line. I used a 30m herding tape which allowed him to walk away from me, then to follow verbal instructions at a distance. If he failed to respond I'd give him a gentle pull on the tape. By now we'd stopped using treats after each time he did what I told him. I instead just fed him a small bucket of crushed apples at the end of each session.
After this he was pretty much trained. All in all it took around 7 weeks, but I continued with him for half an hour a day for several weeks after that just to keep it up. Now I can go into the field and when I call him he'll leave the herd and come to me and follow whatever instructions I give him. Initially, he looks for a treat, that I normally give him, then after we've played around for a while I give him an apple and he goes back to his ladies.

Really the exercises are very similar to those you probably did when you first trained him, but there was much, much more emphasis on his approach, my safe zone, and me touching him. It also took much longer than it takes me to train normally, but I was told that this was necessary to 'break his attitude'. I was told to keep his halter on throughout the training, which I was to use to pull his head down each time he started to show off. I think this was very important in getting him to respect me again, as by this time he was very capable of raising his head above mine, so I would pull him down to show that I was the dominant one (this is also a behaviour that camelids adopt when arguing with each other or when a new one is introduced to the herd).

I followed the same training regime with my two camels, as I'd never owned camels before and I was a bit apprehensive about following a quicker training schedule. It seems to have worked really well. One problem I have is that I can't get the male to Kush, but other than that they're both respectful and well behaved. If you have any advice on getting a stubborn camel to kush I'd love to hear about it!

I hope you find this helpful. If you have any other questions please let me know.

[camelidman]

I nearly forgot to mention that with the camels I used a clicker when training them. I didn't know about this method when I had the problems with the llama, but I suspect it would have worked just as well (and saved me some money on apples!).

[camels]

Thanks for all the advice.

My camel cushes well, or used to before he developed this attitude. I don't really have much suggestions. What worked for me was tapping his back legs with a stick over and over again until he got sick of it and laid down. Then I would tap more slow, and then I would tap the ground, all the while saying "cush". Then finally I only said the word with no tapping, and he would lie down. Now it takes some tapping again. I think he's testing me.

The car problem is a huge problem though. :mad:

[camelidman]

I'll try tapping his rear legs to make him cush. I've tried this before, but not for any great length of time, so maybe that's what I'm missing.
I've previously done lots of things to make him cush. I installed a ground anchor and tried dragging him down, but that was as disastrous as the other attempts.
I've got my fingers crossed for your car problems working themselves out sooner rather than later. Maybe a horse trainer could work for you..?

All the best,
Jon

[camels]

Tap his back ankle over and over again, and pull down on his halter at the same time. When he was little I reinforced this by picking up his front leg and bending it into a laying down motion. But I think yours is probably too big for that now. The tapping might make him annoyed enough to just end up laying down eventually, but it might take a very long time.

I couldn't imagine trusting a horse trainer in my area with my camel. I had one out for a horse I had about a year ago, and she was awful awful awful. I haven't heard much better about anyone else out here, but I'll keep it in mind in case I hear of a good recommendation. He's almost possessive with the cars, and I'm not sure horses usually get like that about objects, anyway.

I think most of his other problems are just questioning whether or not he's alpha, and just generally being a stubborn jerk.

[camel2]

Be careful about tapping his rear leg to get him to Kush. You stand a very good chance of training him to kick.

You need to set it up so no matter what you get the Kush. If you relie simply on holding him down, you're going to loose. He's getting bigger so he's going to test his boundries and strength. An anchor in the ground is an excellent step. I'd start from the beginning and retrain the Kush. I'd do so using a foot rope around his ankle...below the joint but above the pad. You'll probably need a second person for the start of this. Though it can be done with just one. You pull his foot up, cue Kush verbally, and pull his head down using a ring in the ground. You can then tap his other front between the toes to convince him to come down faster. Don't worry about the rears if he goes down in front but holds his butt up. Simply keep him down in front. Eventually his rear will get tire and down he comes. It may take awhile the first time but it will get faster. Never let him get up on his own. Be sure he waits for you to cue him up.

Once he's Kushing reliably with a foot rope. Asking him to kush with the foot rope on but without pulling his foot up. Then wean the rope away all together. You can still help cue him by tapping him between his front toes if he doesn't immediatly respond to the verbal and pulling his head down.

At anytime he turns into a butt head again you can pull out the foot rope. That way you always have a back up plan to strengthen your control when he decides to see what he can get away with. Because he's a growing male, he's going to try to prove his dominance. Because he wasn't raised with other camels, he's going to do so with the only herd he knows...you or cars. You need to make sure you always set yourself up to succeed when you cue him to do something. You need to make sure you get the behavior (providing you took the time to train it first) you ask for no matter what. If he wins, he's top dog or in this case, male camel and he'll keep trying you.

[camelidman]

That's superb advice. I'd never thought of using a foot rope before, but I'll try it today.
I've looked all over the internet for kushing advice, but to no avail. The many videos I've watched include stroking the belly or rear legs with a stick. I'm eager to try out your advice as everything else seems to fail. (funnily enough, although it's impossible for me to make him kush, I have a donkey that I keep with them who's prone to kicking if you get too close to his food. As soon as the donkey gets close to Zeus (my male camel) he kushes in an instant, and stays that way until she leaves. I suspect this is to protect his legs from a kick. I've often though that I should just threaten him with a good kick to the knee and maybe he'll kush for me..?
...okay, maybe not!)
I'll let you know how it goes.

[Cameleer]

Did you see the info and photos here at Camelphotos.com about teaching a camel to koosh?
http://www.camelphotos.com/cush.html

[camelidman]

Hi,
No, I hadn't seen that. I've just added it to my favourites after two more days of failed attempts at getting him to kush.
I seem to have been doing it differently to the photos suggest I should, so I'll give it a go today.

[camels]

These are my videos, but they aren't very step by step.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONVG1NYBxok

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uL-x6EPboOw

[camelsinfrance]

HI Camels
Sorry to hear about your problem, but I think the video shows us what it may be!

First off, he looks great, and I can see you have a hugely close relationship with him, however, there's a load of kissing and hugging going on.

With young camelids, like many young animals, they need to understand who the head of the heard is, and I'm worrying that he's regarding you as an equal, and occasional playmate. When we study herd behavior, we understand that the young camels bad behaviour is ( like good behaviour) learnt and practised. When a youngster in the herd is misbehaving, the peers within the herd will ignore it - and hey why not, they're bigger and the small camel proves no threat, whereas for us, if he starts stomping all over us, we react.

I have a feeling, and am more than happy to be proved wrong on this, but do talk from personal experience... that his actions to you and others, are a mixture, of play, attention seeking, and herd place establishment... ie he's trying to assert his authority over you.

I have a camel in a similar position, she was the most loving, and emotionally the most "lost" when she arrived here, and ...like you ... I gave her far more hugs and cuddles than the rest of them... she's over 2 meters high.

It wasn't until she ran over me and broke my shoulder, and a further time knocked me down on the road that I became very aware I had to change my behaviour towards her, and her towards me. For several months, I completely ignored her... COMPLETELY... bringing food and giving it to her at the point she backed up from me. I ignored bad behaviour, and as and when she REALLY hacked me off, I stamped my foot hard to the ground.

I now have a camel that's not challenging me, has respect, and listens to me.l Of course, it's hard, I want to cuddle her, I'd love to plaster her with kisses - but that would be attaching human values to her, and would do her no favours. If you'd like more information, please feel free to PM me, or we could talk on MSN or Skype - alternatively, please feel free to call me and I'll talk you through it. ( +33 562 33 36 24)

Also - there is little documented on camel herd behaviour, however, there's a great deal on ABS - whilst this is in a slightly different league, you may be interested to understand it.

Good luck and let me know if you'd like further info.

Kind regards
Sarah

[camels]

Thank you for the great reply. I think his behaviour towards me is definitely an attempt to assert dominance.

I never thought that I was spoiling him though. Everything that I read about camels before I got him said that it was a very unsafe thing to do. I never let him invade my personal space when he was a baby, and always taught him to back up (take 2 steps back) if he got too close. I tried not to train him using too many treats, so he didn't crowd me to get at them. So when he cushes I kiss and hug him as reward. I also taught him to kiss on command.

I was also told to make sure to touch him all over while he was young, so that it would be easier to handle him and would be come very familiar with you. So I did a lot of petting and brushing and bonding.

Because he was bottle raised he tries to nimble and suck on my fingers. I finally stopped this behaviour by flicking him in the face with my fingers any time he tried to grab any part of me. The times he has tried to bite me, in what I think is play, I've hit him as hard as I can (which is not very hard).

Maybe I am too lenient with him though, and I would welcome any advice.

I've noticed there has been some improvement in the last few weeks, ever since I took him out of the main 10 acre pasture and sectioned him off back in his acre. I've also spent a few more minutes with him every day just telling him to cush or otherwise interacting with him in a way that he respects me.

He still needs a lot of work though, because he is not as good as he was last year with me. Especially on the lead. He's stubborn and refuses, whereas he used to go everywhere with me.

I look forward to getting more info.

[camelsinfrance]

OOh there's so many elements here to deal with so I've copied and pasted your posting into my own with an attempt to address each one...

I never thought that I was spoiling him though. Everything that I read about camels before I got him said that it was a very unsafe thing to do. I never let him invade my personal space when he was a baby, and always taught him to back up (take 2 steps back) if he got too close. I tried not to train him using too many treats, so he didn't crowd me to get at them. So when he cushes I kiss and hug him as reward. I also taught him to kiss on command.

I think you've done exactly the right thing in so many ways, and I appreciate that you've attempted to be the "trainer" right from the start... but have you been the leader - I don't know, it's hard to see imagine it without seeing you two interact... to me it looks like he completely adores you, but also... perhaps takes this adoration too far at times. The backing up is great, keep at that - Ironically, I'm a fan of treats - a - it rewards that good behaviour, and b - because they can be given at arms length which gives you a slight safety barrier and retains your personal space. The kissing and hugging thing is the hard one here, I'd be interested to know if he cushes at will for you to gain your attention... and if he does... what do you do... I'm guessing he'll be plastered in kisses!!! I'd do it too if I hadn't experienced the reactions that can ensue from that.

I was also told to make sure to touch him all over while he was young, so that it would be easier to handle him and would be come very familiar with you. So I did a lot of petting and brushing and bonding.

Again... this is a strange on - yes the desensitising is really important, and of course you need to brush him - HOWEVER... if you think about the camel in the pack and observe other camels - the submissive members of the herd will be the ones who groom the more dominant members - there's a fine line, and many camel owners believe it's fine to sleep with your camels... again... a fine line between sleeping with them as the dominant member, or sleeping with them to bond... it's all such an incredibly fine line and I'll no doubt get a few responses from this comment either way!!


Because he was bottle raised he tries to nimble and suck on my fingers. I finally stopped this behaviour by flicking him in the face with my fingers any time he tried to grab any part of me. The times he has tried to bite me, in what I think is play, I've hit him as hard as I can (which is not very hard).

Hey - it's worked for you and that's the main thing... different things for different people - I'm a purist... as much as I can I endorse positive behaviour, and ignore negative behaviour or stamp the ground as they would in a herd... however, it's hard to ignore having your fingers bitten off

Maybe I am too lenient with him though, and I would welcome any advice.

It sounds to me like you've done just the right things... tell me - does he have a play mate? Another camel, horse, llama, donkey - most likely he should have another camel ( older ) who will put him in his place - I was thinking about the car chasing thing last night in bed... I'm sad... but It sounds like it's a fun game and he's wanting to befriend the cars... not the safest of things when you're out riding him on the roads in a few years time!

I've noticed there has been some improvement in the last few weeks, ever since I took him out of the main 10 acre pasture and sectioned him off back in his acre. I've also spent a few more minutes with him every day just telling him to cush or otherwise interacting with him in a way that he respects me.

Again - sounds to me like you're doing all the right things - I'd consider stimulating his brain a bit more, perhaps with a game of football...I KNOW... it sounds mad, but it's a safe game, will get him thinking a bit more and also get him to enjoy playing with you whilst not in your space. Another game would be to teach him to retrieve an object - watering can or something on command - this way he'll know he can have fun whilst away from you, but still being with you!


He still needs a lot of work though, because he is not as good as he was last year with me. Especially on the lead. He's stubborn and refuses, whereas he used to go everywhere with me.

Also in bed last night - ( it was a long night) I thought about your earlier comment of getting a horse trainer in... I have to say... in almost every way you seem to be doing all the right things, just the reward needs fine tuning... and I'd suggest that a horse trainer would probably fix the problem temporarily - he's not got too many bad habits that you can't iron out... he just needs to know his place... and his place with you... not a third party, so if it was me... I probably wouldn't invest in a horse trainer, who probably has less large animal experience than you do at this stage.

I hope all has made sense - I'll look out for you on Facebook and AIM and then we can have a bit of a question and answer session and hopefully iron out any other issues you have... though... I have to say... I probably don't have all the answers!!!!

Right - I have a sunday lunch waiting and 5 starving people wanting to eat, this being the South of France I'm summonsed to the kitchen!!!

Kind regards
Sarah

[camels]

I might go back to giving him treats. This is initially how I taught him to cush and now I've stopped giving them. He does seem sort of food motivated so this might help him along.

No, he doesn't have a friend. I had a horse, but he was put to sleep in July. He's all by himself. Do you think is contributing to his behaviour? Maybe the cars are replacing another animal for companionship. I would love to get this behaviour to stop because he's broken my roommate's two side mirrors and has dented my car badly. Who knows what will happen to them next. Oddly, he doesn't bother cars while I'm out walking with him, he ignores them or is respectful.

He does retrieve. Basically it's like a dog fetching. I throw a bin or a bucket and he goes and gets it and drops it in front of me. The football sounds fun though.

Thank you so much for your thoughtful comments and let me know if you think up anything else.

[camelsinfrance]

Hiya - and also a belated Happy Birthday... hope you had a good one.

2 WING MIRRORS... and I thought my girls were pickles...

I do think it maybe the search for a friend that's responsible for the car chasing - again... happy to be proved wrong by other camel experts out there.

Do you have any camels near you that you could borrow? I have horses too - but I struggle with putting them in with my girls, just incase they kick - as their kicks are far harder than the camels half hearted attempts - and our camels have each other, so it makes it easier!

I'm guessing he may not be too big as to be put in his place by a llama?? Any ideas forum?

Ask Roger if he has any ideas... maybe you could get him a Zebra - WHAT FUN!!!

[camels]

He was never with my horse, but they were pasture neighbors. I would be way too afraid to put him in with a horse. I think he is too big to get a llama to correct him, and I don't know of any one else in the area with camels. I would love to get a zebra, but I couldn't afford to get an adult right now, and a foal wouldn't help too much.

Thanks for the birthday wishes.

Wish I had got another camel for my birthday. :)

[camelidman]

Despite the huge size difference, I think you'll find that a FULL male adult llama will get on well with a male camel and would probably help out keep him in line. They're smaller, but they are gutsy and they spit, which can quickly help assert their position in any herd.
My main stud male leads any herd he's put with, be that large herd of Charolais cattle, my camels, or we have even had him with a single adult water buffalo bull some years ago in the UK and he soon became the dominant one. The only ones he fails to impress with his manly charm is the female llamas, who boss him around. Currently he's with my two camels (in the same field as 11 other llamas, a donkey, two huge adult female cows and a young calf). The camels forcefully reject any other animals advances to get to their food, even the abondance cow who has huge horns, but they always make way for the stud llama, should he decide he's hungry.
Failing the availability of a male llama, could you get hold of an adult male donkey or mule?

[camel4ever]

Hi, if you are not carefull you may have alot of problems in the next few years. You may see a lot of methods to restrain a camel in this : Pictorial Guide to Traditional Management, Husbandry and Diseases of the One-Humped Camel.

Is a photographic CD-ROM with 1000 captioned pictures on disease, husbandry, slaughtering, age determination etc etc of the camel.

It is available on line at: www.lulu.com/content/759963.

Good luck

[camels]

Thanks. Maybe I'll consider getting an intact male Llama. Do you have any good links to start reading up on them? Are they hard on fences?

My camel is still intact, too. Would that pose a problem? I don't intend to not have him castrated it just hasn't happened with my vet yet. Should I wait until after he's castrated to get the llama?

[camelsinfrance]

What fun - you see that's why forums are so great - you get a varied difference of opinion! I'd never consider putting my entire male llama with my camels as he did break in once and was chased away - but then I have a herd of camels who thought it would be great sport to chase a llama that was stealing their food... he scaled a 5 ft fence from a standing start, but so pleased you've had success with yours Jon. They do jump, but with a good big area like you have I'm guessing he'd be Ok - but I have to say - and again... it's all personal experience... I wouldn't keep just 1 llama as they're really herd orientated and you could end up with 2 problems instead of one... JUST my take on the situation and Jon has far more Llama experience than me"

[camels]

Would I need to get two llamas even though my camel should be company for one llama?

[camelidman]

You're quite right, they all have their own personalities at the end of the day, so one is likely to be different to another.
I've had lots of stud male llamas over the years, and I've never had problems with them being bullied by any other animal. The only time I have any kind of problem is when I keep them with [bovine] cows/bulls with horns, and when it comes to feed time the cow uses the business end of their horns to push the llama out of the way.
As I mentioned before, I've kept intact llamas with all sorts of different animals. I've not found any farm animals that are faster than them, so despite their diminutive size in comparison with a bull for instance, they can always get out of harms way. They're also incredibly alert, so if, for instance an angry camel were to approach, it would be out of there before the camel got close. I've only ever seen a llama jump a fence to either get out of harms way, to get to a female, or when the feed supply is getting very short. In Europe, the time to keep an eye on them is late November onwards when the grass starts to lose its nutritional value. When they jump, they really jump. It wouldn't be difficult for one to clear a 1.5 metre fence or a 2 metre ditch with only a 3 or 4 metre run up.
I've found that they normally eventually befriend any lone animal, even much smaller ones (once I even (possibly foolishly!) kept a young adult llama with an orphaned wild boar (the small brown iron age kind), and although the little fella couldn't keep up with his big friend, they spent each day together for over 4 months until I found a compatible pig). This bonding behaviour has been observed with several llamas over many years, so I don't think I've had the pick of the bunch.
I've been lucky enough to spend time with with guanacos, vicunas, alpacas and llamas, and I'm just getting to know my two camels. Of all of these, and with the other non-camelid animals I've met and kept, the intact male adult llama is the one I'd use as a companion in most situations. I suggested in an earlier post that you may look at a donkey or a mule instead. If this is a route you take, then you'll have to be much more observant, and give supplemental feed separately so the equine won't be tempted to reverse up to the camel and kick him out of the way to ensure he gets the lions share. I'm always wary at feed time when my donkey is in the same field as the camels. - the crack of a whip, or at night the flash of a cigarette lighter keep her away and neither tactic seems to bother the camels.
It's certainly true that a llama won't bond with an existing herd of animals, even with a herd of llama females he'll remain on the outside and only venture into the herd to 'sew his wild oats'. I think this is the behaviour that Sarah experienced with her camels.
If you put a pair of llamas in with your camel I expect they'll bond with each other and keep their distance from the camel, so this may fail to deliver the results you want. It's right that keeping a llama on it's own can be heartbraking, as they pine for company and will be seen marching back and forth for hours along the same fence line, refusing food and only stopping their pace to sleep and for the occasional drink. Keeping two male llamas together can be disastrous. They have long 'fighting' teeth and although they'd normally only fight over a female, or over herd supremacy, they sometimes fight over food, unlike females that just spit and howl or grunt at each other.
One thought though is that we've spoken about introducing another animal that will eventually have a calming influence on your camel. It occurs to me that it's possible that the camel could teach the llama some of his own bad tricks, then you'd be left with two unruly animals! One way to lessen the chance of that happening is to remove the llama each day for some one to one training of his own.

That's all I have. I hope it helps. Whichever way you decide on, please let us know how it goes.

All the best,
Jon

[camels]

Thank you for the information. I'll definitely be reviewing this thread a lot in the next month or so. I'm going to consider purchasing a Llama, but first I'm going to look into electrifying my fence.

[camels]

I thought I'd update this situation.

I found an intact male llama only four miles from my place, and I'm bringing him home this afternoon. He's big, about 450 Ibs. I'm willing to, and sort of expect that he'll need to be castrated, but I'll see if he causes any problems first. I won't be introducing him to my camel until after my camel is gelded on Saturday. He'll be going in the pasture near my camel's round pen, so they can see each other and become more familiar through sight and scent.

I hope this works! I've been very anxious to get him a new friend and I'm excited myself to keep a llama -- I really like them.

[camelidman]

That's great news! Well done!
I hope you have some great experiences with the two of them together.

Let me know if you need any llama specific advice.

All the best,
Jon

[camelidman]

and, if you keep the llama complete, he may have a controlling influence over the camel.

[camels]

Well I just got him settled in to a pasture near my camel. Before I put him in, I introduced him nose to nose with him. They seem very interested in each other, and my camel wasn't showing any aggressive signs, and neither was the llama. I'm going to continue to keep them apart until next week, and then we'll see what happens. How would you recommend to continue to introduce them?

[Cmaentz]

I know I'm the newby here but I taught Boris to Cush in less than 20 minutes. I used Phil Gee's method of tickling his belly with my short whip. I had him tied to a post all this time and when he realized this "annoyance" was not going to stop, he just cushed. It's like he didn't realize that I was behind the annoyance.

Now if he's on a lead and I'm holding the other end, I have to tap his belly a couple of times to get him to cush but if he's tied to a post, he'll cush on the first tap.

I'm in the process of training him to stayed cushed - that's a little more time consuming but I'm more patient than he's stubborn. I use treats to get him to stay down while I touch him and walk away but he never gets treats when I command him to get up.

My 2 cents worth!

[camels]

I posted a follow-up to this, here: http://www.camelphotos.com/camel_forum/showthread.php?p=1468#post1468